The failure to announce this camera's directly competing models from Sony and Nikon on this forum clearly indicates a bias toward Canon.

It's a forum, Frans. The whole point is for each of us to state our preferences and the reasons behind them. Of course there's a bias in any given post. It's the ability to pose a countering viewpoint which makes the fourm unbiased.

Incidentally, thanks for the heads-up, David!

Chip,

This was not an expression of opinion, but a straightforward product announcement posted by a Shutterbug contributor, not just you or me. If it is OK for a Shutterbug contributor to announce on this forum a new 10MP Canon dSLR for under $1000, then the same should apply to new 10MP Nikon and Sony dSLR's for under $1000.

My question is aimed at Mr. Brooks, but anyone can answer it. I'm finally going to buy a new digital Canon. I plan to get a 30D,( I consider myself semi-pro or advanced amateur) but with the Rebel XTi out at 10 megs and the duster for the sensor,do you think I'd still be more satisfied with the 30D.
I've just moved out of state, and my new town has a great camera store. The new store's 30D price is the same as B&H at $1399, should I try the internet at $1176 ?
Thanks

Frans,

The original source as indicated is Reuters, a news service from the UK. It just happened to be a few hours ahead of Canon USA.'s announcement. There were no announcements by Nikon in this category currently, just point and shoot cameras, and I have in the recent past mentioned the new Sony dSLR a couple of times and recommended its consideration.

I consider this a personal attack, and if you respond with more of the same I'll refer it to the Administrator.

Chip,

Usually Reuters does not headline a new camera announcement, but they did this morning with the Canon Rebel XTi. My guess is they think its news because with over 50% market share Canon is triggering an entry-level dSLR price war by offering the XTi under Sony's price. It may be interesting now with some really new players like Panasonic, Samsung and Sony making the dSLR market pretty crowded these days. I sure wouldn't want to sit at a poker table with the Canon marketing execs playing against me!

But if they are smart and watch the play carefully photo enthusiasts will surely benefit from this dSLR poker game. But some may get caught too if they let sentimental loyalties from the past influence them because some of the old camera companies are small and up against some really big and aggressive players and may just have to fold.

David,

The Sony Alpha DSLR-A100, the Nikon D80 and the Canon Rebel XTi are all 10MP, below $1000 dSLR's announced in the last couple of months. You did not copy the product announcements or otherwise announced the Sony and Nikon models on this forum, but you did so for Canon. That is called a bias, plain and simple, and if you want to run to the teacher and tell on me, go ahead.

Panhandler,

It has been my experience that the Rebel entry line and the "D" models produce very close to the same image quality from the same size sensor when shooting in Raw format. So the main reason for considering a camera like the 30D is that it is a more rugged and serviceable body and provides more internal buffer memory, features and custom functions. So if a lot of use, and those features and functions satisfy essential requirements then the cost over a Rebel is justified, otherwise it is not.

Frans,

I have been covering some photography products in various magazines for well over 30 years now, and for much of that time I have worked for editors who covered Nikon themselves personally. With the exception of the few years before I retired from full-time employment in the magazine business I had a couple of magazine I ran as editor, and then I did cover some Nikon digital products, mostly scanners. Since I have been contributing to Shutterbug, Nikon has not been a company I have covered for Shutterbug. That is "territory" which other contributors lay claim to. So it is not a matter of bias on my part at all, it is due to the fact I admit I have little experience with Nikon and really do not know their cameras with the exception of testing and reporting on several Kodak dSLR's that used Nikon bodies a few years ago.

So I do not feel obliged at all to "cover" any particular or all brands. And for that matter I am not even obliged to participate in the forum, I do so on a purely voluntary basis, because I like to support the magazine and its readers in general. And BTW Peter Burian covered the new Sony 10MP dSLR for Shutterbug.

But you obviously have a personal, individual problem with me. You have my e-mail address so if you have an issue with me you are welcome to discuss it with me one on one anytime. So why trouble everyone else with your issues when you don't have to, unless of course you have other motives.

You have a pair of questions here, panhandler. I'll treat these seperately.

Quote:
I plan to get a 30D,( I consider myself semi-pro or advanced amateur) but with the Rebel XTi out at 10 megs and the duster for the sensor,do you think I'd still be more satisfied with the 30D.

I can't really say what you'd be satisfied with, but I'm thinking seriously of getting an XTi. That 10mp (full frame?) is a big pull as far as I'm concerned. In reality, it won't make much difference; though each will have its advantages over the other, both are amazing cameras.

Quote:
I've just moved out of state, and my new town has a great camera store. The new store's 30D price is the same as B&H at $1399, should I try the internet at $1176 ?

Two hundred bucks is a lot of money, but it'll be helpful to YOU to develop a good working relationship with the great camera store in the new city. You'll be getting lenses, filters, lights... and lots of good advice. I'm happy to pay a bit of a premium to deal face-to-face with friendly, knowledgeable people whom I know personally. Because I'm familiar to them, they'll usually cut me a break with something I buy too. Frankly it's something a lot of people would seriously envy you for having. I'd say go ahead and buy it locally.

Mr. Brooks, I value your opinion, you just reinforced my reasons for going with the 30D, for it will be used frequently.
Thanks

My problem with all this is that Canon seems to be dropping the ball. Don't get me wrong Canon will still make fine cameras but they will get knocked off the top of the hill if they are not careful. I would recommend anyone to read Bill Gates book titled "business at the speed of thought" it plainly states how Microsoft always operate under the assumption that they are under attack, even when there is no one competing with them.
Now that canon has upgraded there entry level camera They are going to have to rapidly follow suite with the rest of the line or big bad sony is going to come in and tear Canon a new rectom

David,

I don't know what you seem to be thinking. In the dSLR market Canon has over a 50% market share and its closest competitor is Nikon with 28%. Sony, Panasonic and Samsung have just entered the dSLR market and are in the barely noticeable single digit of market share. Plus none of these three have the capability in the near future of challenging any of the main traditional camera brands with an up-market dSLR much less a pro-quality camera. Nor can they hope to even carve out much of a market share just in entry-level dSLR's when Canon waits until they have their latest models out and priced, and then provides a better camera at a lower price.

Sony in particular, as well as Panasonic and Samsung will obtain some volume of sales in this expanding market, but mostly from photography novices, as the more experienced photo enthusiasts are more likely to choose a name brand established in the photography community.

As I see it the main reason for Sony in particular to get into dSLR's is because the point-and-shoot market has gotten so competitive there is little profit margin, and there is more profit potential with dSLR's. I don't think even Sony has any expectation of dislodging any of the main players like Canon, Nikon, Olympus or even Pentax in the near future. The Minolta technology they purchased recently will require much more development and time to be able to produce anything up-scale and more than an entry-level dSLR. But Pentax and even Olympus have much more to worry about from Sony, Panasonic and Samsung than Canon for a long time to come.

We shall see, I think sony is going to come in swinging, they have the manufacturing capability to compeat with canon on the image sensor part now. After all image processing and image sensor tech is what digital is all about, put some really good glass in front of that and you have a winner. Lets see if sony goes full frame..

David,

I disagree essentially as I think in terms of providing image qualities that satisfy the serious consumer market there is little more room left for advancement in either sensors or processing chips, just refinement. SLR body features and lens system is where none of the new players have a lot on the shelf to work with, so have a ways to go yet and development of hardware goes slow compared to digital technology. Don't ignore the fact Minolta made several tries at establishing a high-end SLR body and failed in terms of market penetration, and that's what Sony has on the shelf from Minolta to deal with. So I would not expect a mid-level Sony dSLR for awhile yet.

Unless you have a large, established pro-level market segment, it makes no sense to make full frame sensor chips because the price can't be lowered enough to sell in volume because you get so few sensor from a single silicon wafer compared to very many more APS-C size sensors. Kodak discontinued full-frame sensor production because the market would not support it.

Which brings up another question: Does the new XTi sport a full-frame sensor? That 10.1 seems to indicate it, but I haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere.

Chip,

No The Rebel XTi is not a full-frame sensor camera. It is the same sensor phhysical size class as the previous XT.

Chip Doc
You bring up some good points. I agree if you can get a good relationship with a good camera store it could help you in the long run,with prices and contacts.

At one point I thought that I could pay the cheaper price on the internet and then buy my assessories at the camera store, the jury is still out, I haven't made up my mind.

I've noticed that if I go to my local shop and get a big-ticket item like a lens and a few smaller items like filters, books, etc that I'll often end up getting one of those items for free. Margin is higher on the small items anyhow, so you might as well buy the big-ticket items locally and get the little ones mail-order if you need to.

For instance, I buy all the ink I need for my R2400 printer from the net. Though the price is considerably cheaper, the biggest reason I go to the net is because the ink has to be special ordered anyhow; I might as well do it myself and save the cost of a middleman. Incidentally, the mail-order ink costs less than half of the store price.

I finally did it, I ordered an 30D from Beach Camera today. The savings was just too much to pass up. I told the local camera store that I'd be buying assessories from them should get it soon, hope there's no problems.

I ordered my new Canon 30D from Beach Camera with the kit lens 18-55. I received great service paid an extra $16 for 2-3 day delivery and it got here in 2 days. So far I love the camera, still exploring all of the bells and whistles.

The local guy can't compete with mail order on most items.
Theres just not enough volume anymore at local ma and pa shops if there ever really was.

Just an update, I'm really enjoying the 30D. I've shot nearly a thousand frames, still learning the system.
Question, do any of you know how I would go about getting the Infra Red effect from the camera?