"However if there are issues that are points of fact, or additional factors need to be considered, I hope I am open to it."

Well David, that would be a change! Remember the issues of monitor calibration, digital darkroom lighting, Nikon product introductions and the like that we "discussed" a long time ago? Were you open then to points of fact or additional factors? I didn't think so either. This new post contradicts some of your worst past behavior and as such is just plain hypocritical. You have demonstrated over and over again to behave in a hostile manner towards people that have different points of view, no matter how well founded and presented those points of view are.

Frans, I think your response is uncalled for. I think David should be able to speak his peace without being picked on. I don't always agree with him either, but the forum wouldn't be as good a resource without his experience and knowledge.

Quote:
Well David, that would be a change! Remember the...

Uncalled for? What I said is exactly how David has behaved himself vis-a-vis me and several others. I understand that you don't like it, but it's the unvarnished truth.

Frans,

I listened, considered your perspectives, but as you know as well as everyone else, we did not agree either on what were the facts or much else for that matter.

Being open does not mean that I have to agree with your perspective or even that your facts are correct.

Sometimes all that can be accomplished is to agree to disagree, which does not close the door, it only takes new factor to be opened if something different becomes relevant to the issue.

David,

Let me repeat some of what I said before that sums it all up: "This new post contradicts some of your worst past behavior and as such is just plain hypocritical. You have demonstrated over and over again to behave in a hostile manner towards people that have different points of view, no matter how well founded and presented those points of view are." and tell me then how that jives with you being open or just not agreeing. Admit it, David, you have been just plain mean, hostile and untruthful.

I am not one for 'heated' arguements, but I enjoy a great debate! I find it increases my knowledge base, and gives me new thoughts.

I find David's thoughts on all subjects I've requested knowledge on a great help in making myself a better photographer. And that I thank him for!!!

Scott (Keep up your great work) B

Frans,

That I do not agree with something that is written is true, but I am dealing only with written ideas, not the people directly, nor am I saying anything about the people who are writing, but you are making a judgment about me as a person because I did not agree that what you claim is fact.

If I were to make a statement, about what I think of you as a person, then you would have some grounds for for your remarks. But you have none that are on the public record here.

Just don't ask what kind of person I think you are! You might just get an ear full my private e-mail.

David,

I too am dealing with your words, not you directly and what you have written has been repeatedly mean, hostile and untruthful. Only you know whether or not your words truly represent you as a person or not. If they don't then you don't speak truthfully on yet another level; if they do then, well draw your own conclusion.

Frans,

So it is mean to write something that contradicts what you believe, it is hostile to question the merits of your arguments, and it is untruthful to write what I know to be fact. Get real.

What irritates me most are folks who ask a question (I have seen this in real-life meetings) and more than fully know the answer and go to every extent to find out about the product or process to make it and then feel bad when they do not get the answer for which they are looking. They also create new things such as floating variables and waffling sideways to further muddy the waters. Shame on you who do this and I believe Mr. Brooks is not one of them. I appreciate his replies and mentoring which he seems to do, and above all somethig that I will cal Candor. Keep up the good work, Non Bastardo carborundum.

David,

Oh, come on now. Your replies have gone way, way beyond contradiction, questioning the merits of an argument or fact. You eihter are or pretend to be in denial.

So I guess you guys don't fish together much huh?

Quote:
So I guess you guys don't fish together much huh?

Ha, Fishing is the gift from God that brings men together. There would be no way to argue with a fishing partner, just the act of getting out on the water is peaceful, photographers, either pro or amatuer would instantly see the beauty around them and enter into a state of tranquility, unless they did not bring a camera! I love to fish and yes I always bring my camera.

ed